Kind correspondent Mart sent me a link (to which I make this shamefully late reply...) to commentary by director Alex Cox (Repo Man) on the topic of Kurosawa. Under the heading "More tired clichés about Japan":
It's a very brief bit, so thankfully there's not too much goofiness in there by volume. But there is that ever-popular quoting of the oh-so-tired proverb, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down". Sigh.
Speaking to the director, or to any of the innumerable quoters of that "nail" proverb:
Look. It is an actual proverb, and it does indeed convey an admonition to go with the flow and not stand out. No argument there. And if one wants to argue that such sentiment is more prevalent or more onerous in Japan than in "the West", I have no doubt that plenty of points and plenty of supporters can be brought in to buttress the argument.
I only want to ask the world to stop reading so much into the existence of proverbs and expressions. "Well, proverbs give us an insight into the thinking of a people..." Not really, I say. That's a common claim, but a poorly supported one. First, how often are such "revealing" expressions actually unique? " 'The nail that sticks out' is so contrary to 'Western' thought", I've heard more times than I could ever count – yet, don't "Westerners" say the exact same thing? "Don't rock the boat." "Don't make waves." "Keep your head down". Over in Australia, people speak of the "tall poppy syndrome" – that is, it's the stand-out poppy that gets its head lopped off. (Hmm, sounds familiar...)
In addition, people happily sling contradicting proverbs and expressions. "Haste makes waste" and "Look before you leap", we hear – along with "He who hesitates is lost". "Many hands make light work", yet "Too many cooks spoil the broth". "The squeaking wheel gets the grease" versus "Silence is golden". On and on.
There's nothing odd about that. Different expressions are created and used by different people at different times, in response to an infinite number of different circumstances and desires. So it goes with us humans. As much fun as it may be to try mapping infinitely varied human behavior to a few trite expressions, in the end we act how we act, proverbs be damned.
That goes for "the Japanese", too. Quote "The nail..." all you want, but while you're doing that, plenty of Japanese are keeping busy purposely standing out. There's no shortage here of avant-garde artists, punk rockers, controversial authors, game-changing business leaders, you name it. Loud right-wingers pushing for more nationism in schools, and bold teachers stoutly defying the same. Forthright activists. Zany costumed celebrities. You get the idea.
In fact, I'd say Japan's a pretty great place to "stick out". Want to be a flamboyantly open transvestite? From all appearances, the likely outcome is that you'll become a handsomely compensated TV star. Or are you more of a long-haired, heavy metal-loving maverick politician and hobbyist Elvis impersonator? Watch out; Japan might make you Prime Minister.
In closing, let me also add that there are countless people in Japan who don't live splashy lives and who may very well fit the description of non-boat-rocking, non-wave-making, head-down, hammer-avoiding, short poppies. (Uh, something like that.) That's to be expected from our species. And, of course, there are times and places and situations in which these people, and even their heads-up splashy neighbors, make the wrong waves and get knocked by that hammer. Mindless conformity is a real phenomenon.
You can even experience it yourself. Try taking a same-sex date to a school prom in the US. Wham goes the hammer. Try taking an upper-caste job as a lower-caste person in parts of India. Wham. Try criticizing the government in any dictatorship. Wham. (That's the cell door slamming.) Try coming out as an atheist in fundamentalist corners of the Middle East. Wham. Wham. Wham. (Those are real rocks, not a figurative hammer.)
I ramble. In summary: Yes, there's groupism in Japan. There's anti-individuality groupism everywhere. The groupism may even be relatively strong in Japan. But please don't tell me there's any binary "groupism vs individualism" dichotomy between Japan and "the West". Any difference is one of degree, not kind.
And while you can no doubt make arguments for the size of that degree, please do so using evidence. Proverbs just don't mean much, okay?
Oh, a final item. I think I've asked this before, but here's a question for anyone who's lived in Japan:
Have you ever actually heard the proverb "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down" used in the wild? That is, actually used naturally by one Japanese speaker to another, for its intended admonishing purpose?
I'm certainly not saying that it doesn't get used that way, but I've never heard it! The only times I've ever heard the proverb uttered is in pedagogic explanations of "Japanese mentality". I suspect the proverb has little actual currency outside being invoked to support its own existence...
Interesting stuff. Anyway, thank you, Mart, for the pointer!

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Submitted by Mart on
Hi, Thanks for picking up the link. Sorry for being late to react though ;) I was mostly irate over that clip because it was in direct contradiction to the movie he was discussing. The nail that sticks out in Ikiru does not get hammered down; and the protagonist does not lose. In fact, stating that the protagonist loses is a prime example of not getting it in the same way as the civil servants in the film don't get it. The playground gets created, the people and their children have what they wanted, due to the sacrifice of one man. Sure, it's not a out-and-out win, it's bittersweet, but the entire plot contradicts Cox' cheap cliche-mongering.
"That's my cliché and I'm sticking to it"
Submitted by Traveler on
Yep, it's so frequent: pick a cliché and stick to it, whether the circumstances support it or directly contradict it. I see it all the time. For a long-winded example, see my take on an article about Twitter, which opens with a claim most common ("[topic at hand] takes on a unique flavor in [country in question]") – and then goes on to paint a picture of Twitter that in no way supports, and even contradicts, the "unique Japanese flavor" claim.
It's a fine example of such silliness, but I think your example may be even better. Thanks!
Still...
Submitted by Friendly Visitor on
I am also not convinced to read much into proverbs in general, especially dated ones.Yet, if you compare the Japanese mentality to the Western European one, there is a very obvious difference in the judgement and value of individualism. Europeans see individualism as an absolute positive with no bad connotations. People who fight for more extreme expressions of individualism are seen as some kind of cool, cultural elite, and are unanimously looked up to.Most Japanese see individualism as something that can be good, but should not be overdone in order to not disturb the harmony. Being a rebel in Japan is not cool when the rebellion reaches deeper than clothing and poses.
Rebels not cool in Japan?
Submitted by Traveler on
Possibly a perfectly good statement, if followed up with specifics that make sense and are demonstrable.
However:
Setting aside the absolutism of that claim, I'll address its conflict with real-life situations and actions (which are what interest me).
Would I do well in European business by joining a conservative company and then openly flouting its internal culture? Could I join the priesthood and announce my own "individualistic" interpretations of dogma, to the nodding approval of the Vatican? Would a European military enlist me as a soldier and then give me an "oh, you rascal" hair-tousle and a smile when I show up for duty in waist-length dreadlocks, purple Birkenstocks, and my hand-made, tie-dyed Nehru "uniform"?
No to all, I wager. Actions by individuals that differ from the actions of the surrounding group or majority are encouraged, accepted, and/or allowed up to some point, in any human society – including in Europe.
Nonsense, I have to say. Whether "being a rebel" in Japan – or anywhere – is cool or not depends on what exactly that entails. Generally speaking, if "rebel" means acting like an ass and bothering people, it won't be cool. If it means pushing for change that people actually want, it may be cool (or even revered). And then there's plenty of gray area in between those.
In the mid 19th century, Ryoma Sakamoto was a young rebel. "Clothing and poses"? Well, yes, he did idiosyncratically combine samurai wear with "Western" garb (an oddity at the time) – but also decided to overthrow Japan's feudal Shogunate and create a modern nation, inspired in part by US democracy.
Sakamoto left his clan (a huge social no-no), adopted foreign business practices to establish Japan's first modern company (and get the Imperial Navy started while he was at it), formed impossible-seeming alliances between warring clans, and created the plan that led to resignation of the Shogun and soon afterward the Meiji Restoration, arguably the most important event in Japan's history.
Visionary, leader, outspoken individual, and capital-R Rebel, this guy is one of Japan's most admired, quoted (Sakamoto: "A hero should go his own way!"), and "cool" historical figures (the focus of dozens of movies, novels, biographies, TV series, comic series, museums, and more).
Being a deep-down rebel in Japan can be uncool, or can be awesomely ultra-cool. That's how it works with humans!
I do think that the above
Submitted by Friendly Visitor on
I do think that the above commentator was too extreme in saying that Westerners think of rebellion as an unconditional good and that all meaningful rebellion in Japan is "uncool." I've also never heard of the "the nail" proverb said in Japanese, only in English. But I do get a sense that the Japanese perceive the U.S. and other countries as having more freedom (for example, "日本は狭い、二つの意味で" or "○は自由の国"). So since the sentiment that "Japan has less freedom than the U.S. and Europe etc." is a shared feeling, I do think that it holds more water than if it was simply a U.S. impression. The impressions on both sides may be exaggereated but I do think it is there in reality to some extent. I think one of the most obvious differences is people's impression of いたずら or どっきり. If someone tried doing in Japan things like what Rémi Gaillard does, they would not be praised so much. Rémi Gaillard's are watched by a number of people in Japan, and many do find him funny of course, but they keep on saying, 日本じゃ無理, and there is a general feeling that if he were a Japanese person, or if it was someone doing it in Japan, they would not find it as funny. And in fact, someone once did try to do something resembling one thing that Rémi did regarding a drive-thru, but only received tons of scorn and comment like もっと逮捕されるべき. So I do think that there is a real difference in mentality here.
Hi! I believe you're saying
Submitted by Traveler on
Hi! I believe you're saying that, true, there is not an absolute, polar difference in "East vs West" viewpoints on the topic at hand, but there is a difference in the points, between the extremes, at which the two viewpoints lie. Or as I like to term it: a difference not of kind but of degree.
That certainly sounds sensible. Which is why I take (mildly bemused) exception to claims like "Europeans see individualism as an absolute positive with no bad connotations". Instead of claiming such an absolute, why not just say (for example), "Europeans tend to view individualism as more of a positive than do Asians"? It's a much more defensible stance.
On the matter of "いたずら or どっきり" (for anyone not familiar: "mischief" or "surprise" stunts, such as "Candid Camera" gags): Off-hand, the suggestion that such stunts won't play as well in Japan seems odd. Japanese TV is famous worldwide for outrageous tricks, pranks, contests, and the like. Pranks that confuse, scare, or embarrass people (celebrities and random victims alike) are an absolute staple of TV here. So, in "East vs West" views of such pranks, does a difference exist? Certainly not one of kind, though there of course may be one of degree. (And without studying the matter, I'm not going to place any bets on which side scores higher in the difference of degree!)
I'll have to pass on making a comparison with the stunts of Rémi Gaillard, as I'm not familiar with his oeuvre. But I will completely discount the 日本じゃ無理 claim. Yes, you're right, it's a common claim; I've heard it a jabillion times as the similar 日本じゃ考えられない ("That's unthinkable in Japan!"). That claim tells us one thing: that the claimant believes or wants the matter in question to be "unthinkable in Japan". But whether or not the claim is true is an entirely different matter! It's one of my favorite meaningless fluff phrases, and I've found there are few things as unreliable as individuals who think they can speak for tens of millions of people. I've got a mountain of examples showing the silliness of such...
(A quick one: the university professor who told us that credit cards would never find acceptance in Japan, due to concepts of debt and shame and obligation and blah blah blah, all utterly opposed to thinking in "the West". Fast forward not too many years, and credit cards had become normal, everyday tools in Japan, accepted in stores and hotels and restaurants and even ever-lovin' taxis... followed by the expected appearance of people getting into trouble with credit card debt, followed by public service ads and other exhortations warning people to use cards more wisely.)
My long-held take on things: Whenever you hear something described as "unthinkable", you can bet your last yen that someone out there is not only thinking it but is actually doing it!
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