As in last time's Commenting on "10 Reasons Japan Is Better Than America", here I comment on a post on the Hunter Nuttall website: 10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan. I hoped I could agree with many of the points in the article – but even more than last time, I found so much to disagree with. Here I go, with excerpts from the list followed by my comments: 1. Credit cards: I didn’t see a single place in Kyoto or Tokyo that accepts credit cards. What? When was this alleged trip to Japan the author speaks of? 20 years ago? Here in Tokyo, credit cards are accepted at supermarkets, convenience stores, bakeries, florists, hardware stores, restaurants, rental agencies, pet shops, pretty much every retail outlet imagineable... heck, in many ever-lovin' taxis, even! 2. Water; 3: Napkins and toilet paper: In the U.S., every restaurant gives you water right away and will continue to give you as much as you want. In Japan, you don’t get cold water unless you ask for it... Most Japanese restaurants don’t give you napkins... And Japan has only recently begun putting toilet paper in bathrooms. First, congrats to the author on picking up on an often-ignored oddity that I was going to write about; he beat me to it. It's true: there are restaurants that don't have napkins, and there are restaurants (though hardly all restaurants, as implied) that don't serve water unless you ask for it. (More annoying: restaurant staff which, when you do say "Water, please!", smartly return with one glass. "Uh, water for everyone at the table this time, please...") With napkins, things are at least a little predictable. It's generally a small class of more "traditional" joints - mainly ramen, soba, and other noodles - that skimp on the serviettes, while the rest of the eat-out biz does provide napkins. What's unfortunate is that noodles are a dish that really do call for some face-wiping afterward, so the withholding is a bit of a mystery. Best to carry tissue at all times! I suppose the culturologists will have some contrived explanation for the missing water and napkins at some establishments, but there's really a simple explanation: poor customer service. No, I'm not claiming that poor service runs rife through the country or the industry or even all aspects of the restaurants in question. Service in restaurants in Japan is overall quite good! But there are exceptions, and here we've got one. (Or two.) That brings us to the final necessity, though. "Just started putting toilet paper in bathrooms"? Say what? There were, and no doubt still are, public toilets that expect you to bring your own, but for the most part, public toilets or those in an establishment will have TP. Again, I have to wonder what times and places the author is talking about. Maybe he chanced upon a restroom that'd just been "cleaned out" by a heavy user, and decided to label it a national issue. I don't get it. 4. Affordable fruit: Fruit is outrageously expensive in Japan. I saw some melons that cost $50... Come on, folks, give it up already with the $50 melons. Yes, there are high-grade, perfect-quality fruit specimens given as gifts, and that includes $50 melons. But that's not what people eat at home or at restaurants! Go into an actual grocer's, and you'll find fruit and veggies at reasonable prices: a buck or two for a bunch of bananas, a few bucks for a nice melon or a bag of citrus fruit. Reasonable, that is, for a big city in a country that imports most of its food; I'm not saying it's cheap by global standards. But it is cheap enough to be unworthy of comment. (Which is why lazy writers ignore all that and jump right to "OMG FRUIT COSTS $50 IN JAPAN!") 5. You can do things your way: One of the kanji characters is simply a box. But you can’t draw it however you like... The process is more important than the results. If anyone wants to write about the weary "Japan is a rigid, do-it-this-way place" trope, have at it. But the above is a lousy example of the claim. People in Japan do learn a specific order and direction for the strokes in a character. That's not because of some "process vs results" dichotomy, though. It's a practical matter: in flowing script, including typical handwriting, a standardized writing method makes the cursive results recognizable. Do-as-you-please stroke order and direction makes such script very hard to read - which sort of defeats the purpose of writing. In other words, it is about results, after all. When I was a young'un in the US, we learned writing using that paper with the little lines indicating the baseline for letters, the height of capital letters, where a "t" stops, how far down the "y" dips, and so on. All very controlled and prescribed; penmanship sure wasn't a lesson in "do things your way". How is that any different from the Japan example given? (Finally, contrary to a later claim, one does not have to "go through 24 weeks of classes to have a rudimentary understanding of how to drink tea properly". If the author is referring to the hobby/art known in English as tea ceremony, that description simply misunderstands what's being studied.) 6. Relatively little discrimination: ...And they even discriminate against pure-blood Japanese, born and raised in Japan, who have ever set foot outside the country. Yes, there's discrimination in Japan, as in the rest of the globe. As one interesting local example, employers in Japan are quite free to specify gender and age requirements for hirees, which I think would get a US company in hot water today (though maybe not so long ago in history). Discrimination is a big topic, and books can and have been written about it. But the particular example given above is pure silliness. Traveling, studying, and working overseas are utterly mundane things in modern Japan, at least in the cities; outside of some oddball crowds, they will not get one ostracized. Bookmark/Search this post with: |
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Re: Commenting on "10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan"
Hello again...as before, I'm just going to respond to a few of your points.
- Credit cards. My trip to Japan was in April 2008, so no, not 20 years ago. I spent 6 days in Kyoto, and 2 days in Tokyo. I suppose it's possible that some of the stores I visited do in fact accept credit cards, and I just didn't ask. But I didn't see any "we accept credit cards" signs other than at Kyoto Handicraft Center. Before going there, I asked my hosts how often I'd use cash vs. credit cards, and they said you have to use cash all the time, that they don't take credit cards anywhere (or checks, for that matter). A simple Google search shows that this isn't something I'm just making up.
- "Just started putting toilet paper in bathrooms"? Say what? There were, and no doubt still are, public toilets that expect you to bring your own, but for the most part, public toilets or those in an establishment will have TP. Again, I have to wonder what times and places the author is talking about. Maybe he chanced upon a restroom that'd just been "cleaned out" by a heavy user, and decided to label it a national issue. I don't get it."
Again, my trip was in April 2008. My source for this information is what my friends told me, They said that people used to have to carry tissues with them all the time, and that's why there are people on street corners handing them out. I didn't personally see any public toilets without toilet paper, but as you say, they still exist even today.
- "When I was a young'un in the US, we learned writing using that paper with the little lines indicating the baseline for letters, the height of capital letters, where a "t" stops, how far down the "y" dips, and so on. All very controlled and prescribed; penmanship sure wasn't a lesson in "do things your way". How is that any different from the Japan example given?"
The difference is that the penmanship requirements stop after grade school. No one cares that I draw my e's differently from other people. I used this as an example because drawing a box seems like such a minor thing to regulate.
- "Discrimination is a big topic, and books can and have been written about it. But the particular example given above is pure silliness. Traveling, studying, and working overseas are utterly mundane things in modern Japan, at least in the cities; outside of some oddball crowds, they will not get one ostracized."
I don't know what to say here. According to what I read (which I think was "Kata: The Key to Understanding and Dealing with the Japanese"), what I said is perfectly true.
- "At any typical moment, a good 99% of the people in view in Japan will be wearing jeans or business suits or dresses or some other form of what we'd call "normal Western" clothes."
I must have seen hundreds of kids wearing school uniforms. Did I just happen to arrive during "wear a uniform to school week?" And my point was about casual clothes, not "normal Western" clothes. Business suits would certainly count as non-casual.
- "But there has never been, as far as I know, a specific claim that Japanese can't digest American beef."
I got this from the book "Insight Guides: Japan."
- "So, back to the list item: Japan is "too proud" to accept imports, right? WRONG. Japan is a huge importer of goods from all over the world."
I do agree with this. I was just pointing out some weird things they have against some imports.
- "Hmm. I wanted to make this a more agreeable post than the last, but it's gone the other way."
And as with your other post, I have no problem with this one. This is perfectly reasonable criticism, and I appreciate your input.
Re: Commenting on "10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan"
Hello again! A few in return:
Re credit cards: Well, you saw what you saw; I can't make any claim about the specific stores you visited. But just for the record, cards are accepted as a daily norm in large swaths of the retail sector. Quite possibly less so than in the US, but still very commonly.
A tangent: Over 20 years ago, I had a prof tell me that credit card usage was low in Japan – and would never become the norm because of "cultural differences" regarding "view of debt", and how it was "shameful to the Japanese" to have debt...
Credit card usage may have been quite low then, but I didn't believe his "cultural difference" explanation a bit; I figured that time, if anything, would mostly explain different levels of usage. And nowadays, what do we have in Japan? Not only credit cards accepted by retailers in general, and card offers coming in by mail and phone, but even public service announcements on TV to battle the growing problem of credit card users going in over their heads.
No one's saying this is a good change, of course. : /
Re toilet paper: If we did the research, I wouldn't be surprised if we found that public WCs without paper were more common here in Japan. But again, it's just a matter of wanting to set the record straight for readers: Many WCs here do have paper. Certainly in most retail establishments!
(As for tissue paper handed out at stations: One main use for it is simply as regular tissue paper. Blowing the nose, the kids' noses, and all that.)
While on the topic, one more tangent: Some writers on Japan love to play up the "everything is so spotless" meme, but for the record, I've seen public toilets here that would make a cockroach's skin crawl. Some involving... let's just call it 'collateral damage' from off-target 'bombs'. Sometimes cleaned up quickly, sometimes not...
And there are also plenty of nice, clean restrooms. Overall it's not bad!
Re writing things correctly: Yes, penmanship lessons in the US may stop with elementary school. But with block handwriting, stroke order/direction truly doesn't matter for the ABCs. (It would matter with cursive, but I'm not sure that you can fiddle with the stroke order/direction of cursive, other than the choice of when to dot i's and cross t's. Cursive is inherently restrictive.)
Writing lessons do continue past elementary school in Japan, as you say – but that's primarily because the characters still haven't all been taught! So we can't draw any conclusion on cross-cultural importance of proper strokes from a comparison of the number years of penmanship lessons.
The point remains: true, no one cares that you draw your English e's differently from other people, but no one even has a way of knowing how you draw them. Whereas when you "draw a box" in non-block handwriting in Chinese/Japanese, stroke order/direction does make a difference in the outcome. If you don't write the languages, please take my word for it (or ask others who write them).
A cultural difference in "desire to regulate" is arguably real; like anything, it needs to be proven. But before that, there's a simple practical difference that explains the "regulation", and it's easy to demonstrate on paper.
Re discrimination: I don't doubt that you read something that says Japanese who travel overseas face discrimination. (I wouldn't doubt that there's a book claiming the Japanese have six kidneys and breathe methane. : / )
But if your book does claim discrimination as you say, I'd like to ask its author for an explanation of the many Japanese students willingly studying abroad in the US and Europe, the company employees who take postings overseas or go to the US for MBAs, the countless tourists flocking to Hawaii and New York and Venice and... (Japanese are among the world's most active overseas tourists.)
In closing, all I can offer is my standard advice: be very, very wary of "understanding the Japanese" books; so many of them are so bad. Take any claim within as interesting possibility, but don't believe it until it's proven.
And the same, of course, applies to anything I say. : )
Thanks again for the comments! Come visit Japan for another eight days (or longer if you can!)
Re: Commenting on "10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan"
"Did I just happen to arrive during "wear a uniform to school week?"
I don't know about America, but in England and Japan we wear Uniforms to school. So the chances are if you see a school kid, He or She is gonna be wearing a uniform. Business suits? must of been working hours...Obviously.
Re: Commenting on "10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan"
And many lands outside of England and Japan use school uniforms, too.
Lots of business suits here in Japan too. The US has gotten much more casual about suits in recent years. Japan is heading that way, too, though I suspect lots of guys will be in suits for many years to come. : )
Anyway, for casual readers of this site or the original site in question who might wonder about clothing in Japan, I just wanted to point out that jeans are very common here. Kimonos, on the other hand, are much more noteworthy and interesting, but worn quite infrequently, for those ladies who wear them at all.
(There are some interesting variances, of course: Women in traditional restaurants, or running traditional inns, etc., may wear a kimono nearly daily as a "business uniform"!)
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